Let's start a conversation!
Sep 02, 2009 by M. Daniel Carroll R. | 13 Comments
Immigration. It’s a word that generates all kinds of emotions—pity, anger, confusion. It also raises an assortment of questions. How did we get to the point where we are today? How many undocumented immigrants are in the country today? What is the difference between immigrants and refugees and asylees? What about assimilation to the American way of life?
In light of all of this, how might we begin to engage immigration from an explicitly Christian point of view? Does the Bible have anything to say about immigration? What difference would it make to think about it in this way?
Let’s begin that conversation! The goal of this blog is to get Christians (and anyone else who is interested!) talking about immigration very self-consciously from the resources of their faith. My hope is that this can be a civil exchange, even if there is significant disagreement. Let ‘iron sharpen iron’ with a strong dose of charity and patience.
I will be drawing from my book, Christians at the Border: Immigration, the Church, and the Bible, but I also will point readers to other resources, share ongoing experiences with immigrants, and raise other issues that are relevant to the debate.
Welcome to the conversation!
Comments
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Dave Oltrogge Sep 5, 2009 7:04pm
I welcome your courage and initiative in creating this blog, and look forward to some stimulating and illuminating conversations! INI. Dave Oltrogge
Glen Peterson Sep 6, 2009 9:19pm
Dr. Carroll, I am delighted to see that you are starting this blog to further a conversation about justice, compassion, the Bible and immigration. I am further glad to see that this discussion, in the form of a blog, is held within the context of Denver Seminary’s web presence. Your book, Christians at the Border: Immigration the Church and the Bible, is an excellent starting place for this conversation. I have had the opportunity to read your book and share it with others to establish a theological framework for the immigration issue. In the long term, we both know that transformation will occur through relationships and friendships between migrant and native born, assimilated and stranger. May God move all of us toward a better understanding of hospitality, generosity, love, justice, and compassion.
Glen Peterson, M. Div., 1983
Kathy McMillan Sep 8, 2009 12:48pm
I'm grateful that you took the time to start this site. I really just have a question: Why is it against the Bible to have national borders and to expect people to respect our borders? Yes, I have a "dog in the hunt", so to speak. My husband's career has been essentially destroyed by an employer who chose to use illegal immigrants rather than legal, US citizens. I don't understand why it seems that you think it is ok for this to happen. Maybe you could share with me some of your thoughts so that I can get a better understanding.
Claudio Quinteros Sep 8, 2009 4:40pm
Querido Grandote Canoso: Saludos y felicitaciones por la iniciativa. Espero poder postear y contribuir en este tema. Claudio, el matero que se está haciendo canoso
M. Daniel Carroll R. Sep 9, 2009 10:55am
Kathy: Thanks so much for your thoughts. Immigration issues take on a new dimension when personal experience comes into play. I know of Hispanics who have worked and then not gotten paid or who are being underpaid by employers, who take advantage of them. These people work hard to provide a better life for their families but cannot complain to anyone, because of their status. In other words, there are victims on both sides: immigrants who are hired as cheap labor, and those on the other end of things who are affected by those hires. It is clear that the system is broken for everyone involved.
Most who seek immigration reform are not against national borders. There may be some radicals that make that claim, but there are also anti-immigrant extremists who want to deport the millions that are here. This kind of excessive rhetoric—on both sides—is not constructive. It gets people angry and distorts the debate.
Immigration reform, among other things, will need to take into consideration how best to organize the borders, establish labor options that truly reflect national needs, and provide a sensible and responsible path to citizenship.
What this blog will be trying to do is to look at a FULLER picture about what God may have to say about this topic. This background can then inform us, as Christians, about what kind of legislation we might feel that is best for all and reflects the heart of God.
Dan Vanchhawng Sep 9, 2009 2:20pm
I wonder what your comment would on people in 'developing nations' who are desperately turning to theology and missions/even Christianity as a ticket to employment and residency opportunities in the US? There are especially many examples of young women seeking out American men who would give them the opportunity to live in the US, all through the name of Christianity and missions. While genuine needs are there for a better life, there seems to be a rapid loss of self-worth and dignity, especially in such people. The desire for materialism seems to outweigh the need for dignity. Further, though some might come in with legal papers, statements in those papers could also be untrue to an extent, like claims of coming in for theological studies, where the actual intent might be to settle down permanently through such a window of 'opportunity'. How accepted can this be with the American Christian community?
Dennis Hesselbarth Sep 9, 2009 3:18pm
Dr, Carroll, Beyond the issue itself lies the manner in which followers of Jesus discuss their concerns. Can we treat one another with respect? Can we listen to another's viewpoint and seek to understand, even if we tend to disagree? Can we seek common ground? Or will we ignore the teachings of Jesus and impinge other's motives, speak with anger and accusation, and emulate talk radio rather than Jesus?
M. Daniel Carroll R. Sep 9, 2009 8:53pm
Dan: You are right that there are cases like those you mention. Some are born of true desperation for a better life than is possible in the home country; others might come for less reason. An issue like immigration is messy, and there are going to be a spectrum of justifications and a range of the quality of people who desire to be here. Moving to a different place for a change or a new start is very common. For example, few in Denver are natives. Most have come from somewhere else, and for right and wrong reasons, too. It is all very human.
Dennis: Precisely the point! A different tone and a civil exchange are the goal of this blog. Thanks.
Sarah Mendez Sep 10, 2009 4:44pm
Immigration and Faith is actually the topic of an upcoming LifeTree Cafe (which meets at Group Publishing) -- September 27th and 29th. Here is a link to LifeTree's site http://www.lifetreecafe.com/whenandwhere.asp It might be something you enjoy attending.
Wes Lusher Sep 11, 2009 12:49am
I really don't see anything "messy" about immigration. The US has quotas, rules for entering this country legally and they are pretty straightforward as I understand them. Illegals are illegal and they have committed a crime by sneaking into the US. I have friends who are illegal. They are nice folk, they have been in my home, but they don't "belong" here UNTIL they get legal status. What else is there?
M. Daniel Carroll R. Sep 14, 2009 8:30pm
Wes: Thank you for your posting. There are a couple of things I would say in response. Any serious acquaintance with present immigration laws, quotas, etc. (and the history of how we got here) would reveal that things are not straightforward. The fact that both parties continue to debate the topic are proof that things are not right. Examples: (1) quotas: the US needs hundreds of thousands of unskilled labor (e.g., 25% of farm labor is immigrant labor) that quotas are not even beginning to meet. Unskilled labor quotas are in the tens of thousands. What draws people here (and has been so for over 200 years) are jobs and the desire for a better life. (2) Legal status. Currently there are several avenues, one of which is having a close family member. The backlog is so great, that cases now are taking up to a decade to be resolved.
If one is a Christian, who desires to take the breadth of what the Bible has to say on the topic, then one needs to try to coordinate compassion and openness to the needy with national sovereignty and labor realism, among other things. That is a complex discussion that cannot be resolved by bullet point arguments.
Wes Lusher Sep 15, 2009 9:59pm
Daniel,
Immigration needs to be resolved to our nation’s benefit and the immigrant’s so neither party is taken advantage of and harmed. You mentioned the labor need in the US. There needs to be a work-visa program that allows for guest works to come and work legally after a background check. The number of workers in the program would be adjusted as needed. There would be a time period for their working in the country. The program could provide for housing and healthcare. US labor contractors, who would be regulated, could provide for transportation and housing if need be. Some farmers, hotels and such already provide for this in some states. In Arizona, I believe the Hilton imports Russians in a 6-month rotation, which seems to be working out fine.
The quotas I was referring to were for US entry, not for the labor force alone.
Yes, I understand there is a backlog in processing but that is not a reason to abandon the process, but a reason to add more people to handle the applications.
Arizona has seen a great number of illegals leave the state because of laws that were passed. E-VERIFY must be used to verify the social security numbers. If an employer hires without checking, their business license is taken away and they no longer do business in Arizona. Arizona is still functioning in the ag area.
There is a way to solve the labor problem in a reasonable manner. One can be compassionate and open but we, as Christians, cannot condone thievery nor illegal acts.
Wes
Philip Sekar Mar 8, 2011 2:43pm
Today, we are spending$400 billion/ year of our tax dollars. The current unemployment is 40 million Tax payers. They cannot even get ajob for $8/hour whereas all the illegals who have broken our laws are haqppily employed and they are making $25-30/hour. How? Their jobs only pay $7/hour. They cannot feed their large families. So, they get FREE food STAMPS,FREE health care,FREE education,FREE public SERVICE and EARNED INCOME TAC CREDIT for not paying Taxes.A woman sneaks into the border and makes babies and these babies eventually are granted "citizenship" by the abuse of 14th amendment. I am a legal naturalized citizen. When we are injured by an unlicensed driver with no insurance, we get double the penalty whereas the illegal gets by with this. Are we insane? Why have we allowed this 2 tier legal system in acountry that was built by laws and has respect for laws.
We must be compassionate. Ok. here is asuggestion on compassion: Please open your homes and invite atleast one illegal immigrant with 5 children. Feed them, clothe them and pay for their medical bills. But, leave my wallet alone. This will be your compassion. The churches must meet their physical needs. THEY MUST STOP HERE. Aiding and Abetting illegals is a crime. The Catholic Church, PCA(USA),ELCA, UMC,Episcopalian Church and the Assemblies of God are breaking the law by AIDING AND ABETTING THEM. They still enjoy the Tax Exemption status. Why should the IRS continue their Tax exempt status and not REVOKE this status? This will help the tax payer a lot.
The illegal immigrants have broken the law. God forgives. But, there is consequence. Their employers must be prosecuted and those jobs must be released so that the God fearing, Taxpaying loyal unemployed citizens can be gainfully employed.
Why is illegal immigration our concern. It should be the concern of alll the activisits inside their own countries. Christian activists must go and cause a revolution for betterment of lifestyles in those countries which send these people to us to take care of. This revolution must start by the people and it must begin in Mexico.
We the American are the most generous people on earth. The illegal immigrant community is abusing our generosity. Mr.Calderon is encouraging more people to move the USA illegally and we must take care of them. Enough is enough. Roamn 13:1-2.All authority comes from God. He who rebles against authority rebels against God. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH